Curse

Shadowspawn X · Feb 02, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

I am a pve'r GW tells a story like most epic games and my character is the protagonist. He has saved the world four times and fought for favor of the gods and the honor of his guild. The reason I have not done a lot of pvp is it is not integrated enough into the storyline, its almost like a sideline activity. Anet has done a very poor job of integrating the two formats.

They were on the right track with linking HA to favor but the implementation just wasn't quite right. Hero rank should advance quests and unlock missions then there becomes a reason for the pve'r who follows the storyline to pvp. Also in GvG why are the guilds fighting? Where is the lore to support this constant brawling? Tighter integration of pvp and pve can benefit the GW universe. Since they introduction of pvp versions of the skills there is no reason for fans of either format to be at each others throat any more. Zaishens are supposed to be hard core warriors descended from the Canthans but where is the RPG content to reinforce that the battle isles are part of the GW universe and not some tacked on afterthought. Why can't the Zaishen give me a quest saying go get Glad r1 and comeback for your reward? What I'm trying to say is that the GW population is fragmented into two groups of pvp and pve player because the game is fragmented. If Anet can produce a more integrated game in GW2 then they will have a more integrated player base as well.

pumpkin pie · Feb 02, 2009, 06:32 AM // 06:32

I want to vote but you seem to have miss one category, this one, me lol to be exact: i play mostly pve and a lot of any type of pvp that does not need forming group to get to.

Verene · Feb 02, 2009, 06:35 AM // 06:35

I mostly play PvE. I've done a small amount of PvP but I didn't care for it, and I think the extent of my PvP is going to be things like Dragon Arena, and that sort of thing.

Honestly, I don't like playing games with other people much, and I'm much more interested in plots and stuff like that than beating the crap out of someone else. So PvP isn't the sort of thing that appeals to me, nor has it ever. I just really don't find it fun. So PvE is what I prefer and play.

Dmitri3 · Feb 02, 2009, 06:53 AM // 06:53

So, because there's more PvE'ers, PvP shouldn't exist? Nice argument...

Honestly, stop trying to prove that your position is the correct one. Everyone is biased here and that's all. There's no right or wrong. Yeah, that includes me, but at least I admit it.

I play PvP as a high-end goal (GvG is most fun for me). PvE, mostly for a relaxing walk with inevitable crushing of NPC foes.

mr monk rupsie · Feb 02, 2009, 10:15 AM // 10:15

In the beginning i have played PvE of course. You dont know the game and you need a slight introduction to play the game normally. You play 8 different characters trying to know what suits best for you and then you try to push yourself to the end of a campagn.
Then when you have played out a campagn you know a few combinations with proffesions and you know what skills are bad and what not.

Then you might do some pvp. (for example i take a monk, RA)You have a few setbacks but as you look to the opponents what they carry around you adapt yourself to it. (you take the same monk build or observe some GvG's and take that build or just go to pvxwiki.com for cookie cutter builds).

Afther that you play some more pvp. And came to a conclusion. Health is more important then energy. It gives the healer/protector more time to react and your skillbar should always be in balance. (Or you get it as tip from other players or guildmates you have met.)

Afther some matches you are fed up as monk and try a different proffesion. ETC. Until you have mastered all classes a bit and maybe just maybe you will try GvG or HA (for me).

If you go from day 1 in gw into pvp you probably would be slaugtered and wont like the game.

Thats also the reason why pve rules over pvp. Even over 3 years. Because you need to learn how to use your skills properly.

The best quote for this: "Its easy to learn, but its hard to master. "

Lord Sojar · Feb 02, 2009, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

HA HA. +1

Points will be awarded to the person who can find the corresponding comments to fit my assumptions.

I present to you madam evidence of your intuitive genius.

Oh yes, and this post counts as...

HAHAHHAHA +1 (12 chars, etc)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers.

is paired with

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Well Diablo series really is the best of all time action RPG's ever made and Daggerfall is the ultimate best RPG ever made of all time with the largest area to explore and Ultima IV is the greatest RPG ever made with an actual purpose and most immersive feeling while playing to the end.

and then there is of course...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.

is paired with

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

So, because there's more PvE'ers, PvP shouldn't exist? Nice argument...

Honestly, stop trying to prove that your position is the correct one. Everyone is biased here and that's all. There's no right or wrong. Yeah, that includes me, but at least I admit it.

and finally!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

This is a PvE forum, so this poll is unfair.

is paired with

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

This poll in a PvE forum is sure to be accurrate.

MUAHHAHA

Fril Estelin · Feb 02, 2009, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Keep posting guys! I will have so many reasonless bans from Inde to give out, I may just ban all Riverside posters for 24 hours (which will clearly make Guru faster)

You should clearly delete Guru. Oh wait, you can't push the big Red button!

bungusmaximus · Feb 02, 2009, 11:08 AM // 11:08

I thiink there's more people doing pve, but it's kinda hard since lots of people play both.

In both formats you got elitist a-holes and nice people, in PvE it just doesn't show anymore since many people roll with heroes.

One Eye · Feb 02, 2009, 11:10 AM // 11:10

PvE.
I just find it more fun.

Dmitri3 · Feb 02, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.

is paired with

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

So, because there's more PvE'ers, PvP shouldn't exist? Nice argument...

Honestly, stop trying to prove that your position is the correct one. Everyone is biased here and that's all. There's no right or wrong. Yeah, that includes me, but at least I admit it.

Misinterpret my post as much as you want, but seriously... that doesn't even sound close. All I said PvE and PvP should stand on same grounds, 50-50.

And yes, everyone is biased here, assuming they play the game at all. Personal opinion on "pve/pvp is better" counts for nothing. But numbers aren't worth anything either because people will migrate back and forth quite a bit.

Lord Sojar · Feb 02, 2009, 11:33 AM // 11:33

One of these days, I will find a way, or convince Inde to give me the launch code to nuke Riverside.

However, let me make this post semi worthwhile (by semi, I mean you should read my post or die....)

I will give you my all great and wise view regarding this topic, which should be taken only as fact (because I am a genius)

PvE makes up the majority of the GW player base. That can be clearly seen by simple mathematics adding up district count. However, that in no way invalidates PvP, which is exactly what GW was built on (if you argue this, see my user title...) The population of PvP does, to some degree, indicate the current condition of the game. However, in order to keep players appeased, ANET has catered to PvE players by adding PvE centric content. Can you blame them? By adding PvE centric content, they keep their PvE base appeased (or attempt to), and with little effort output (respective to original design at least). PvP is quite a different creature.

Guild Wars PvP can only evolve so much. It is bound and always will be bound by the core skills that compose the meta (if you don't know what skills I refer to, please leave this thread). Nerfing or altering those skills by more than a fraction would break the game. This is one primary reason GW1 is ending; it cannot be drastically updated without completely destroying the game (which, I don't care what you say, they have yet to do).

The main reason for the PvP imbalance is the sheer number of skills, and the interaction of said skills. Change one, make another overpowered. Nerf that skill, make another skill useless. Update useless skill, make a new skill overpowered. Vicious cycles must, at some point, meet their end.

The player population moved from PvE to PvP quickly in the first few months of Guild Wars, and even more so once the initial changes to the PvP entry system (Balthazar faction was a good example) were made. However, with the addition of more PvE content (Sorrow's Furnace), that pulled players back to the PvE realm. This trend continued with each subsequent chapter release. EotN was completely PvE centric, as was Nightfall before it.

Factions added "PvP light" in the form of JQ, FA, and AB. These were actually planned out additions to the game, and were it not already for the huge divide that was created over the year prior, might have convinced more players to participate in high end PvP. The curve leading into to high end PvP (RA lowest form, TA and HA in the middle, and GvG being the highest) is geometric. Unfortunately, GvG is so fiercely competitive, that even if skilled players really wish to enter and be competitive, they are pushed out by other guilds that just are THAT MUCH BETTER. This creates another one of those vicious cycles; PvE players that dabble in PvP and wish to try to become excellent PvP players are shot down and limp their way back to PvE, shamed. The divide grows.

So... that all being said... Instead of continuing to type walls of text to prove I am right, why don't we just all settle on simple mathematics?

More people play PvE than PvP. PvE has more venues of play, and caters to a broader audience. PvP has its rightful place, and that isn't about to change.

Ok, who wants popcorn and drinks while the other fools pick apart my post, forming them into walls of multiple quotes and responses *gives out goodies*

Fril Estelin · Feb 02, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

More people play PvE than PvP.

I found an idea to make this discussion more healthy, and possibly give it a new life: stop talking about people, say something like

"more PvE is played than PvP"

This solves the following problems: 1) no attacks between 2 camps; 2) people doing both don't feel segregated; 3) it focuses on content, and we can then move the discussion forward (because Anet, or Guru, can change the playerbase).

So the correct question is:

Why is the vast majority of content played PvE, or why is so little PvP content played?

Discuss, with or without popcorn. And as House says, "You can think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to quit thinking".

bungusmaximus · Feb 02, 2009, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Factions added "PvP light" in the form of JQ, FA, and AB. These were actually planned out additions to the game, and were it not already for the huge divide that was created over the year prior, might have convinced more players to participate in high end PvP.

These light pvp's are really the most fun imho because you can actually be a little bit creative. Running goofy build's doesn't mean you don't play to win of course, but there's no other people all the time telling you whats most 'optimal'.

Yang Whirlwind · Feb 02, 2009, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Because I was challenged to do this (and because some think the mods can't possibly close or delete any posts because we don't know how a thread is going to turn out) ... without even reading this thread, let me sum up past, present and future arguments this thread will spawn.

PvE sucks, you are all noobs who don't know squat about the game.
PvP sucks, you are all elitist jerks who are know-it-alls.
Guru sucks, PvP people don't like to go here.
Guru sucks, PvE people don't like to go here.
Guru doesn't represent even 1% of the actual player base so this poll is bogus.
This is a PvE forum, so this poll is unfair.
An argument on a skill or build.
A discussion on Warhammer, WoW, or some far fetched game that is not an MMO like Super Mario Brothers.
HA HA. +1

And no, I'm not even going to read the thread. Points will be awarded to the person who can find the corresponding comments to fit my assumptions.

That is all. Carry on.

Found them! I will tally and award myself the points.

Honestly, I do not understand why it always ends up with the PvE vs. PvP fight. That sad song is ancient,- please let it die!
Play the game the way you like to play it and let everybody else do the same.

balamoor · Feb 02, 2009, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

Wow, I'm quite astonished, I can believe that most of the community plays PvE more than PvP. I was so sure that it was the opposite way around that I didn't even give that a thought!

All of you got me highly curious. Why is that you're playing in that manner? Doesn't it get boring after the first time? What's keeping you there?

You're Astonished? Imagine how A.net felt after they found this out years ago.....it's why the series took a decidedly more PVE bent, I imagine GW2 will be PVE centric with aspects of PVP.

Lourens · Feb 02, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

My GW history

1 70% PvE 30% PvP
2 50% PvE 50% PvP
3 40% PvE 60% PvP
4 60% PvE 40% PvP
Total : 220%/4=55% PvE 180%/4=45%
So i play about 55% PvE and 45% PvP

dusanyu · Feb 02, 2009, 06:41 PM // 18:41

to Start out I play GvG and occasionally i delve FA or sometimes a little light PvE

I enjoy CoOp play its Dead as a Doornail in PvE but is Necessary in PvP.

oh and i am in no way an elitest (i my laugh if you do something like blow your pre kite and let me get free crits. on your back and easy bulls strike on you. but i am not doing it to be mean)

snaek · Feb 02, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

@inde...wheres the option of blame anet for making a pve game?

gw is a pve game
so it makes sense that moar ppl play pve

i mean, god forbid, if anet would ever cater to pvp, they would go bankrupt from havin any kind of userbase

lets see...since the first gw...
pve has gotten additional elite areas, 2 full campaigns, 1 expansion pack, bonus mission pack, and moar im certain
pvp has gotten...alliance battles (aka lets kill shrine npcs), hero battles, and heroes to farm (use in) all the other forms of pvp

awesome!

persuadu · Feb 02, 2009, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Wow, this thread snowballed faster than I expected. I appogise for this, but sometimes I view you all as my own personal ant farm, and I like to shake it and see what you all do.

The biggest reason I started this threat was to get people to realize some things about game content and who the game should be catered to the most. It does seem like the PvP crowd shouts for more change than the PvE folks, even though they are the not the majority when it comes to game play. I think everyone knows PvE is the largest community in GW, but a discussion about it might help some people realize some things about why the game is the way it is and they are not going to change it just for them.

The Brilliant Question was asked (and needs to become another thread),
Why is the vast majority of content played PvE, or why is so little PvP content played?

I cannot answer for anyone but myself. I am a PvX kinda guy, but I will say that it is much harder to get in with a group or guild that PvP's than it is with PvE. PvE folks want to help you and PvP folks (Typically, but not all) are already looking for someone who is not only good, but has proven it via their rank, be it hero or gladiator. If you are not sporting at least R3, they will kick you like a bad habit. It is a less friendly environment and some people only enjoy PvP for the ability to beat or upset someone else. You have to have a thick skin and be persistant until you get your chance to even get in with an HA team, and when you do, if you fail, be ready to be kicked. I promise you, grinding out R3 is the hardest. Once you get to R3, it is much easier to get into PvP stuff from there on out.

PvE is fun because I can do it with my friends or on my own. There are still challenges to overcome if you are looking for them. DoA, UW, FoW, killin that bone dragon guy, there are plenty of challenges you can take on with friends or pugs. The only difference is they are in different places with different skills due to the Nerfs. Dont think just cuz your fishing hole dried up that all the fish are gone. You just have to look for a new one.

Having said all that, we need to understand that the content should be changed to fit the majority of the players and not just the loudest voice.

BTW, to the admin that made that guess. WOW, just WOW, that was amazing.

Perkunas · Feb 02, 2009, 07:22 PM // 19:22

I now play almost exclusively PvE. I have tried the PvP side several times. Early on in my GW "career", I was a member of a GvG guild. Got maybe as high as 900 on ladder. When they disbanded, too many daily faction requirements, I went back to PvE. Now and then I would try to step back into PvP. I seem to always run into the crowd with the "Know it all" attitude. I can handle criticism as long as it is constructive. Name calling does not fall under constructive.

PvE>PvP or PvP>PvE, that is a personal choice. I prefer to play PvE. Why? Join game, decide what I want to do today, go do it. If I want to play 10 minutes, 6 hours, or somewhere in between, or at 1:00pm or 1:00am, I can. I don't have to schedule around someone else's schedule to play.